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Interview: Philip Rutnam, chair, National Churches Trust

21 October 2022

‘I feel about the Civil Service like I do about churches: both need to change, but there’s something precious about both’

We’re the national charity that supports some of the UK’s 39,000 church buildings that are open for worship, helping to make sure that they’re valued and not taken for granted.


They’re a fantastic inheritance.
Every church is the centre of a community of some kind. The number will change, and no doubt it should, but they’re a fantastic resource for society. Our task is to help countless people who dimly know that church buildings are a good thing bring that to the forefront of their mind, and not take these buildings for granted. Too much is slipping away.


We fund repairs like roofs,
but also smaller projects, like new kitchens and toilets. We believe the key to long-term viability is to help these buildings be at the heart of the communities they serve. Last year, we awarded more than 300 grants worth over £5 million.


Different approaches are possible, but I’m a great believer in buildings used by a wide range of purposes.
Our church has nursery school, AA, maths classes, and all sorts of community events and meetings happening, which helps to ensure the building is used and valued. If it’s done in the right way, this complements the spiritual life of the building. That’s why kitchens and toilets are important: they help to widen the range of uses that a church can offer. I also think that we worship God by actively serving our communities.


Church buildings are a collective treasure:
the living witness of centuries of faith, history, and artistic achievement. They create a sense of place and identity, and provide countless services to everyone in their community, from foodbanks to hosting Alcoholics Anonymous. And yet the responsibility for their upkeep falls almost entirely on the shoulders of vicars, churchwardens, and local congregations. They deserve all the recognition and help we can give.


We raise our funds through all the usual voluntary means, like donations and legacies.
We also have over 5000 Friends, who are wonderful supporters of the cause. You can find membership details on our website. We have a small endowment, and last year we were able to award some extra grants, thanks to the Government’s Culture Recovery Fund.


I like just about any church that’s of architectural quality or historical interest,
but my favourites would tend to be either medieval, from the early 12th century to early 14th century, or full-blooded Victorian churches built by Pugin, the Scotts, Brooks, Spence, and Bodley, to name just a few. It’s the sense of commitment they express in both cases, I think, as well as their aesthetics.


Combating climate change
is another argument for using existing building stocks wherever we can rather than demolishing old buildings to build new ones, which is extremely wasteful.


I believe that beauty has an important role in worship.
A beautiful object, or building, or text, can stop us in our tracks, and move us in surprising ways. It can take you out of yourself, transcend the day-to-day moment. For me, there’s some kind of affinity between that and moments of stillness in worship. Beauty can be a cause of reflection, and often it’s the stillness of a place that has some beauty to it. In order to admire beauty, it really requires a pause, concentration, relaxation, turning of the person outwards, which is similar to worship. That’s one reason why art has been deeply entwined with religion since before antiquity.


Yes, I believe strongly that the state should provide a regular, dedicated source of funding for repairs
— and, indeed, it mostly did from the 1970s until 2017. The National Lottery then changed its rules, and there’s now a crisis looming in many parts of the country.


But I’m strongly against the approach of state control and funding that’s applied in France
(outside Alsace, which was part of the German Empire at the time), since 1905. France passed a law depriving the Church of all its property, endowments, and buildings, but giving the state responsibility for the funding and repair of churches. Churches are looked after by municipal authorities in the same way as any other municipal building, which is one reason why their churches often look rather forlorn, to be honest.


Our model, based on parish responsibility, is founded on an outpouring of love and care and effort,
and the result is a network of magnificent buildings, looked after as a voluntary endeavour. But it presents us with other problems, of course.


I went into the Civil Service
because I liked the idea of doing interesting work that could make a positive difference to people’s lives. I started as a policy person, but what I found I enjoyed most was trying to motivate and give a sense of direction to thousands of staff.


The sheer variety of the work and the people doing it was what most surprised me.
People think of Yes, Minister, but I worked with teams doing everything from the expert investigation of rail accidents to delivering vast IT programmes, to catching drug smugglers. They had a huge variety of skills and backgrounds, but almost everyone I met carried with them the same sense of public service.


I feel about the Civil Service a bit like I do about parish churches.
Yes, both need to change and adapt, but there’s something precious about both institutions which demands care and attention. A bit like the armed forces, we should see the Civil Service as there for the country, not just the government of the day.


I worked in lots of different bits of it,
and also in investment banking outside it. My experience is that people worked just as hard as those in much more highly paid occupations, for the benefit of the whole of society rather than to enrich themselves.


Public service is something to be valued and appreciated.
It’s a vocation, and people in it have a sense of duty and purpose. This ethos is weaker in some parts of society now: some concepts of public service have certainly been devalued. But I don’t think that’s true of young people. If anything, young people are more idealistic than when I was young, the best part of 40 years ago. Their care for the environment is a very compelling example of their concern for the well-being of all, including nature.


I was born and brought up on the edge of London and Kent,
in a family that was not churchgoing. I was a nominal Anglican until I married my wife, Anna, 26 years ago.


After leaving government,
as well as chairing the National Churches Trust, I work with various other organisations, including a leading NHS mental- and community-health trust, Oxford Health. I was interested because mental health is in a completely different place from 20 years ago. It’s much more positive, though there’s still a huge amount to do. It’s a growth sector: we spend more on it now than years ago, and probably will spend more in the next ten years.


The challenge is as much a societal one as a health-sector one.
We know what supports good mental health, and how to prevent poor mental health: purposeful jobs and lives, access to green space, good relationships; so all sectors need to recognise this. One example is the influence social media have on young people’s lives, and the need to exercise this influence responsibly.


It takes a lot to make me angry.
In recent years, it’s probably been the abuse of power.


A long walk in the countryside of the Welsh Borders or Yorkshire Dales
with family and dog makes me happiest — and the knowledge that tea and cake are just half-an-hour away.


During Covid, our spaniel learned how to open the bedroom door,
and since then it has been his snore at night that brings me a sound of reassurance.


Meeting young people who are markedly less materialistic than the previous generation
gives me hope for the future.


Provided I could recreate the building that I was going to be locked into, as well as the companion,
I’d choose to be locked in a church with Abbot Hugh, the great architect and designer of Cluny. He would be giving me a tour of the great abbey at its height, c.1100.


Sir Philip Rutnam was talking to Terence Handley MacMath.

nationalchurchestrust.org

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