On the podcast this week, Church Times columnists Paul Vallely and Angela Tilby discuss the big story of the week: Dominic Cummings’s trip from London to County Durham during the lockdown. They talk about (and disagree on) whether the public outrage has been fair, and consider the reactions of the bishops.

Writing in this week’s Church Times, Paul Vallely says: “Mr Cummings, with his legal loopholes and rule-rewriting, desecrated the dignity of ordinary people’s sacrifices. That’s what he appears, for all his cleverness, to lack the empathy to understand.”

Angela Tilby is more sympathetic to Mr Cummings’s predicament, and warns against the danger of scapegoating individuals during a time of national crisis.

This podcast is presented by Ed Thornton and edited by Serena Long.

Click the play button above to listen to this podcast. You can also listen to the Church Times Podcast on the Church Times app for iPhone and iPad, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, and most other podcast platforms.